"Judas was the disciple who was perhaps closest to Jesus than any other. He understood what Jesus was about, but made that fatal mistake of thinking that he could precipitate things to go the way that he thought were fit. But of course they weren't, it led to what became a betrayal.

And it's so significant because what happens next is, they don't then turn their back on these sites but come so close to them they actually reach for the body of Lucifer. They climb down his side. And, being in complete proximity to this disastrous image, is what enables the world to turn around because they suddenly realize they're not descending anymore, but an ascent has begun.

It's the light of their understanding, the fact that they've been able to see these things with their own eyes is what enables that turn around. And I think that's what makes sense of the inferno."